It’s sometimes surprising to learn that, even in countries with barely a pretense of freedom, reporters will be more aggressive than the servile Democrat-party operatives in the American media. Such was the case when Rasha Habil, a female reporter for Al-Arabiya Network (out of Dubai and Saudi Arabia), refused to let Khaled Mashal, a Hamas leader, get away with insisting that Israel deserved what it got. Under her questioning, he lied, prevaricated, and unintentionally told the truth.

The first thing to know about Mashal is that he’s resting comfortably in Qatar. This will become important information. Both the video and the transcript come from MEMRI, which does an amazing public service by translating what’s being said in the Middle East in speeches and interviews that are not intended for credulous Western consumption.

Hamas Leader Abroad Khaled Mashal Rejects Accusations of Transgressions against Civilians on October 7 Attack: We Have Nothing to Apologize For; Hamas Only Fights Soldiers, But Sometimes There Are Civilian Victims in War; Hizbullah, Arab Countries Should Do More to Help Us #Hamas… pic.twitter.com/x3O40CFQn8

— MEMRI (@MEMRIReports) October 20, 2023

Nabil begins the interview by pointing out that Hamas didn’t just do a “regular operation.” Instead, “it is more like a declaration of war.” She notes that “some people ask what you expected would be the Israeli reaction” and says that many watching “the great human tragedy” unfolding in Gaza are irritated at Hamas’s unilateral action, given its significant consequences.

Mashal brushes the question off. If Hamas hadn’t kept the attack secret, the Al-Qassam Brigades wouldn’t have had that “ingenious moment” when they “managed to surprise the enemy…” This was all part of “the context of the legitimate resistance that our people have agreed upon…”

That’s all well and good, says Nabil, but there’s a problem: “[W]hat the people in the West have seen on their TV screens, was transgressions by Hamas against Israeli civilians. You are responsible for Hamas's image abroad. Hamas is now being compared to ISIS.”

That’s a pretty amazing statement from an Arab reporter. Mashal was obviously taken aback, so much so that he could do nothing more than repeat a hackneyed line: “This is an accusation fabricated by Netanyahu…” Given the endless footage of the attacks, much of it filmed and promoted by his Al-Qassam Brigades, Mashal’s statement is ludicrous.

But then we get to the stunning point, which is when Mashal—again, comfortably ensconced in Qatar—makes it clear that he believes the Palestinian people must die in great numbers as part of a glorious “sacrifice”:

Dear sister, nations are not easily liberated. The Russians sacrificed 30 million people in World War II, in order to liberate it from Hitler's attack. The Vietnamese sacrificed 3.5 million people until they defeated the Americans. Afghanistan sacrifice millions of martyrs to defeat the USSR and then the US. The Algerian people sacrificed six million martyrs over 130 years. The Palestinian people are just like any other nation. No nation is liberated without sacrifices.

The more dead Gazans, the better. That was part of the plan all along.

Mashal later voices another lie—or perhaps a deeper truth. As both Hamas’s admirers and foes know, the attack on the rave, on children, on women, and on the elderly makes it patently clear that Al-Qassam troops were targeting civilians. Yet Mashal insists that “our military organizations focus their resistance on the occupation forces, on the soldiers… Hamas does not kill civilians on purpose. It focuses on the soldiers. Period.” According to him, civilians were just collateral damage. Well, that’s a big lie.

Or maybe it’s the truth, too. Hamas’s goal, stated in its charter, is to remove every Jew “from the river to the sea.” This means that every Jew, from the newborn infant to the 100-year-old Holocaust survivor, is a combatant. Everyone is a target. There are no civilians. He wants to kill Jews by the millions, and he’s willing to see Gazans die by the millions to make it happen.

Mashal also talks about the strategy of hostages. He notes that Israel gave up 1,000 prisoners for Gilad Shalit. Given that there are (he says) 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli prisons (all of whom had due process), he fully expects that the “dozens of soldiers and officers” kidnapped into Gaza will be used to “empty the [Israeli] prisons, and all our sons and daughters from all the factions will be released…”

Nabil deserves credit for pushing Mashal to be so honest. Once, the Palestinians dissimulated. Now, asked the right questions, they don’t bother to anymore, and the information is very illuminating.

Image: Hamas’s Khaled Mashal. MEMRI.